This is dialogue between my friend Andy and myself from earlier today. There is some good stuff going on there, so take a look.
me: You need to check out that sermon though, the thing that shocked me was the position on Creation. Not necessarily Evolution, but not 6-Day Creation.
(Dave's sermon)
patton.andy: yeah i've heard him say that before.
I am not sure if I should be bothered by it
I remember at Kanakuk the guy talking about how if you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation you may not be a christian... that seems a little extreme to me.
it was alienating. I am not necessarily against 6 day creation, but it makes sense to me that a god-guided evolution could be the way it went down
but the whole question just doesn't concern my that much (although I know it "probably should"... like politics)
me: I guess my problem with that, is that in my heart it dilutes God's Word. I feel like we are taking science and placing it in the Bible. I would prefer to take the Word and place that into our world, not vice-versa.
If that makes sense.
patton.andy: That makes sense. However, if God's word is the Truth then it ought to have no disagreement with science, in fact, science is just catching up with God. We are following God's trail, pursuing , but never exhausting the.
the wonders of his workmanship
so science and the Bible are not at odds
perhaps god created evolution, not secular evolution like they teach in school, but perhaps evolution was simply the means by which God built up an ordained end
or are you talking about how that means that then you would have to rethink the literalness of genesis
as in, God taking woman out of mans rib?
me: And I have no problem with that. But isn't a greater display of power to speak and have a glorious, beautiful creation, already mature and functioning? As opposed to taking millions of years? I just don't see the point of evolution outside from the secular, scientific view on the universe.
The "rib" is most likely Hebrew poetry. But I have no problem taking it literally.
patton.andy: Who are we to say what the greater display of power and glory is. Wouldn't it be a greater display of power to heal an amputee? or to answer my every prayer? But God doesn't do those things
me: Sure he doesn't. But that is a different arena of God working.
me: I fear that if we adjust the "literalness" of the Word too much to fit our present understanding of the universe, we may lose a lot of the glory that God has worked through time in light of our reason.
patton.andy: But God gave us science. Isn't science just exploring the mechanics of the glory of God
In that case, we don't see the glory of God until we understand it
me: Certainly. But Andy I think that every single thing that God gave to us we tend to corrupt and use it for evil. I know I do. With money, food, my freedom, my wife—the greatest example of this is His Word.
patton.andy: And you are saying that what we are talking about might be a corruption of science?
me: No. I think we can use science for means that are not glorifying to God. There is really no way to prove, or know, how exactly God created. But if He did do it in six days and we use the science of today to "prove" that He created over millions of years, he certainly isn't glorified in that.
Remember though... I'm not trying to be a tool or a jerk. I'm just thinking.
patton.andy: Yeah I don't think you are being a tool... i am loving this conversation.
here are my thoughts
patton.andy: 1. We can use science in ways that are not glorifying to God (i.e. the new atheism using "science" to disprove God... or the atomic bomb being used to kill innocents) BUT science is still a good thing created by God to be used for his glory. If this is true then the MORE we understand science the more God is glorified.
2. Perhaps if science shows that creation was made in more than 6 days it is because it actually was made that way. Why would Christians view that science as an enemy?
What have we to fear from that?
me: Good point. There is nothing to fear except for the possibility (however miniscule) of scientific findings somehow being used by Satan to deceive or lead us away from God. Which ultimately, like you mentioned earlier, one of the finest qualities for a Christian to have (yet so few do) is humility.
patton.andy: Yes. Science being basically a good thing like any other created thing does not mean we are free to be undiscerning with it
other thoughts?
me: Not really. But I'm going to ponder the point about what "presents a greater display of God's power," either a 6-day creation, or a 6-million year creation. But ultimately it doesn't matter. In the Lord may we always take refuge, no matter what happens around us (Ps 11).
patton.andy: amen to that.
me: Amen.
Now you need to go get on that preaching list.
patton.andy: to add to that I would throw in the question: what business is it of ours to have an opinion on which is the greater glory
how could we even tell?
what could we ground our opinions in beyond mere cultural fancy?
me: We cannot. His ways are higher and far beyond our own. And we must only worship HIm because, truly, can his glory even be measured?
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