MLS Cup 2008

I needed to put this pic on there... there's something funny about it though.

From left to right, you've got: Yours Truly, MLS Rookie and Champ Cory Elenio, Jason Pele (a groomsman from my wedding—he's Samoan), Eric Johnson, and George (I believe it's "Skylar") ________ (last name is a little foggy for me). We're all buddies from the University of Evansville. Cory, Eric, Pele and I played there a little bit and George was our trainer for a while. Isn't that special, now we're all, all grown up.

Cory just finished his first season with the Columbus Crew, and already has an MLS Championship Ring. Proud of that boy... I've got great memories of him watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force, making fun of me for not being good at soccer, singing Queen's Bicycle song (and that other freaky "Pin Ball Master" song), and most importantly, a precious moment coming back from Chic-fil-a entitled I Don't Remember the Dance.

Skipping Rocks WIth the Dinks

I just thought throwing in this video would be fun.

Mr. President

Well... I've let is sink in for these last 48 hours, and it's finally starting to settle: Barack Obama will be our Nation's 44th president.


Although I cannot say I was excited to watch Obama win the Election on Tuesday night, I can say that I certainly still have hope for our country—and for our next President. In a speech given after the announcing of the Election Results, Obama spoke openly to Republicans, stating that we all must work together, and we all must fight together to bring unity to a torn country. I respect what he said very much, and I will hold him to what was said.

Even though Barack Obama did not have my vote in this election, he has my full, 100% support as the Commander in Chief of this Blessed Nation. I am a patriot, and I love my country, and I will fully back Barack Obama. However, I say this because first I am a follower of Jesus Christ, and I trust that even though Obama will move into the White House come January, God is still firmly seated on His Throne above. May we never forget to seek God in all things, for the days are evil (Ephesians 5:15)—let us turn as a nation to God, who is Lord of All (Isaiah 6:1, 3; Revelation 4:8).

The king's heart is in
the hand of the Lord,
Like the rivers of water
He turns it wherever He wishes.

Proverbs 21:1

What A Servant Looks Like

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men.
Colossians 3:23

A few days ago I mentioned that the "best servant" award for our ABF's building of the Box Maze was awarded to Danny and David Durham. Just to back up that decision, let me tell you a little about Danny.

The Fall Festival was on Sunday night from 6:00 pm to about 9:00 pm. After the Sunday Morning service, I stayed at the church all day in order to prepare for the event. Danny and David stayed with me as well. They were with me all day. Those guys are amazing. As I said, the event was officially finished around 9:00, but we had to stay behind and work on cleaning up the mess, and stomp down all those boxes, and roll up extension cords, etc.

After a while of cleaning up, I took a look at the time. It was 10:15 pm. I had hung out with Danny and David before on a Sunday night or weeknight, and typically they need to be home by 10:00 so that they can get in bed early enough to get up bright and early for work. Obviously, when I realized that it was after 10:00, and we still had (at least) a 10 minute drive to get Danny home, I was worried.

I ran over to Danny and put my hand on his shoulder and said, "Danny, it's after 10:00, we really need to get you home." He looked up at me with those awesome eyes and paused for just a second. I fully expected him to reply: "So, So... we should get going so that I can get in bed." Perhaps that would have been the "wise" thing for him to say, or at least the "comfortable" thing for him to say. But instead, after his pause, Danny looked up at me and said, "So, So... So what else is Deonna doing that we need to help her with?"

That night I saw Danny unhesitatingly carry large boxes of electrical cords from one end of the church to the other, I saw him clean an entire Men's Restroom—including a clever stunt standing on the counter and thoroughly scrubbing all the mirrors, I saw him comb the entire parking lot looking for and picking up loose pieces of trash that blew away during the event... and the only thing he had to say while I was driving him home was, "that was good... I clean a lot of bathrooms at my work."

I worked there all day because my wife works at the Church, and I was supposed to be there getting everything ready and cleaned up. Danny had no reason to be there—except to reflect the gentle heart of Christ to those who had eyes to see. I selfishly thought I had a servant-heart; my mundane efforts to serve others are nothing but a foil contrasted against Danny and David's selfless hearts.

Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality
with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing,
taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:6–7

Whoever humbles himself like this little child
is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:4

Checking My Watch: Ramblings on Biblical Narrative

In the following post, What A Servant Looks Like, I mention that I "took a look at the time" and realized it was after 10:00 pm. My first draft of that post however, read something like this: "after looking down at my watch and realizing it was after 10:00..." When I had been writing out this story the first time, I lied. I wrote that I "looked at my watch." This is funny because I don't wear a watch. I vividly remember on Sunday night checking the time on my phone, not a watch. But, the watch seemed fitting to the story and just came out as I wrote down my thoughts. It wasn't necessarily a blatant lie, I was just telling the story. This "lie" had no meaning other than it was a detail to add to the story.

Does that make me a liar? Would that have made my story about Danny untrue? Certainly not. We all add elements when we tell stories that belong more accurately to our own ingenuity than to the actual events of reality. I didn't lie because I wanted to alter the truth, I simply was telling a story, and my details would have added to the appeal of the story—nothing more. This is also true with Scripture. When it comes to Biblical Narrative, we are not supposed to read ever single little word and arrogantly profess that every single thing exactly as it happen. Though the Word of God is inspired and inerrant, it also was written by human authors—creative, unique, and limited, human authors. Thus, when we read the two different accounts* of how Peter first met Jesus in the Gospels (Matthew & Mark vs. John), we should not conclude that these stories contradict each other; instead we must simply realize that each account of this meeting is told through the perspective of a unique third party—be it Matthew, Mark, or John. All of whom, throughout their detailed Gospel accounts of the life of Christ, will often describe the times when they look down and "check their watch," all by means to better illuminate the wonderful story of our Redeemer's life on earth, our Immanuel.

*(1) Matthew 4:18–20 and Mark 1:16–18
(2) John 1:35–42

Box Maze

Micah 2 Chart (Updated)

Here is my attempt to create another chart of Micah 2 to help clarify my thoughts. The gray shaded parts are those portions associated with "evildoers" or "wickedness," whereas the green shaded parts reflect "justice," and "righteousness" and "goodness." As you can see (a little more clearly than the last chart), the chapter is divided into two sections pivoting around v. 7 and then the mirrored verses build upon an analogous theme. Check it out... let me know what you think (click on the image to larger).




The themes per verse-pairs are:

• vv. 1 and 13: "Who is doing the LEADING?"

• vv.2 and 12: "GATHERING"

• vv.3 and 11: "RESPONSE to What God is Saying"

• vv.4 and 10: "God's WRATH"

• vv.5 and 9: "Having no DIRECTION"

• vv.6 and 8: "Things of God which Evildoers CORRUPT"
  

"...do not My words do good
to him who walks uprightly?"

Micah 2:7b

A.Mazing.:Get Pumped!

Here is the official design for our ABF (Bible Fellowship Class) at Lake Pointe Church! The design is for a "BOX MAZE" that will be a major attraction for the October 26 Fall Festival! I will be putting some pictures up as we document the construction and final project! .... I don't think you all realize how pumped I am!

(click on image for full size)

FireProof

Reasons to go see the movie FireProof:

1. This is a film created by Christians. Although the quality of this film—acting, directing, cinematography, etc.—is certainly sub-par compared to films produced from mainstream Hollywood, you should support the efforts of other Christians. Many people scoff at this film and criticize the embarrassing previous efforts made by Christian organizations to produce a movie, but we should support the efforts of other Christians.

2. That being said, viewing this movie is an edifying experience. It presents the Gospel in Biblical language, and it promotes Biblical virtues and morality in an environment that is so filled with immoral and anti-God experiences—"Quarantine," "Blindness," "Saw V," etc.

3. It promotes fighting to save a marriage in the context of a Divorce-Saturated society. There is a wise quote from the movie in which a man says (regarding loving your wife), "do not follow your heart; you must lead your heart" in loving your wife. Loving your spouse is a decision to be obedient to a covenant... serving and loving your spouse no matter what her response is or what gratification you get in return. That is how Christ loves His Church; and this is a choice that can only be carried out when we fully grasp this love of Christ.

4. Non-Believers who view this movie will be exposed to the Gospel. Even though "conversions" and "Gospel Presentations" in films are inevitably cheesy, God can, and will, use scenes from this movie to convict non-believing hearts.

5. This film promotes the Christlike quality of selflessness. Kirk Cameron's character experiences consistent situations that bring frustration... yet he is driven to press on with a selfless purpose.

Notes for Micah 2

Micah 2: God's Judgment is Coming
(Click on images to view larger)


Outline of the Chapter

Parallels in the Chapter
(v. 7 as the central pivot-point of the 13 verse chapter)

What is man that You are mindful of him?

The Voyager I, a probe sent by NASA to study our solar system, passed beyond the orbit of Pluto in 1990. Still in range of contacting Earth, NASA scientists had the Voyager I look back toward our planet and take a picture, which has since been received. This picture is referred to as "The Pale Blue Dot," which is fitting once you have seen the image (seen above). Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer, in response to this image, wrote:

Look at the earth in this picture—a pale, blue dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. And on that dot everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. Every act of human heroism or betrayal, the sum total of human joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, moral teacher and corrupt politician, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there—on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. What is the glory and triumph of the greatest conquerors and builders of empires? They were the momentary masters of a fraction of a blue dot. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in teh vast and enveloping cosmic dark.

Carl Sagan, "A Pale Blue Dot: The Earth from the Frontiers of
the Solar System," Parade, 9 September 1990, 20–21.

O Lord, what is man that You
regard him,
or the son of man that You
think of him?
Man is like a breath;
his days are like a passing
shadow.

Psalm 144:3–4

When I look at Your heavens,
the work of Your fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which You have set in place,
what is man that you are mindful
of him,
and the son of man that you care
for him?

Psalm 8:3–4

Chafer on Evolution

The act of bringing man into being is an achievement of stupendous proportions. To make man to be the result of an accidental evolutionary process springing from some supposed primordial germ—which germ itself cannot be accounted for apart from a Creator—and all this as a pure imaginative fancy without so much as a shadow of substance on which it may rest for proof, bears all the marks of mental desperation and bankruptcy of ideas. Yet these undemonstrable notions are passed over upon the world under the patronage of education and science. To the unregenerate mind, to which God is wholly lacking in reality, the problem of origin is not solved by the statement that God created man. How desperately unreal that revelation is to all such may be measured by the farcical dogma which men substitute in its place. It would be revealing to such teachers if, having aroused all the humility and sincerity that is latent in their beings, they would inquire why they reject God as Creator.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, Vol. 2, p.130

A Taste of Fatherhood

Earlier this evening Deonna and I took the dogs to the Dog Park near White Rock Lake. Normally we take them down there on Saturday mornings, but with Hurricane Ike scheduled to hit land any minute now, we figured it might be a little rainy around here this weekend. 

(Just skip to the last paragraph if you want to get to the real story...)

At the White Rock Dog Park, I have made two unique observations. First, rarely does a visit to the park not involve my wife and I hearing vulgar profanities. These words range anywhere for the common "S"'s to the disturbing "f"'s. Secondly, Deonna and I have noticed how pets—in this case, primarily dogs—have peculiar ways of resembling their owner(s). This is noticed in possible weight problems, excessive hairiness or drooling, and even below-normal IQ. 

Now, with this relation between owner and pet, there comes a fascinating parallel to disciplinary practices. Our two dogs, Wycliffe and Naphtali, are very submissive to most of the other dogs at the park; Deonna has assured me that this is because of the way that we frequently (and properly) discipline them. A great many dogs go around biting and pushing other dogs to the ground... quite frankly, this pisses me off. If one of my dogs was truly bothering another dog, I would have the decency to spank them, or pull them away and make sure it didn't happen repeatedly. But you always get some git out there who sees their dog biting or oppressing another, and there they are, "hey Spoofy, you need to settle down okay?"

First, the dogs don't understand English, only vocal tone, meaning that if a dog is needing discipline, the owner's voice should have the effect to startle and scare the dog when in the "disciplinary" tone. When my little girl Naphtali needs a good spanking, say she has grabbed some food off the table or chewed up my shoe, she has been know to pee herself simply in response to my "disciplinary" tone of voice. Secondly, 'Ol Spoofy tends to really understand a good slap to the haunch—at least he would if ever received one. 

Well, despite my venting from above, I do have some heartfelt words to share about dogs. Tonight at the park, there were these two dogs that continued to claw at, and nip and bite at my dog, Wycliffe. Wycliffe is a boxer, and though he's a pretty good sized dog, he is a little timid, and as mentioned above, he can be overly submissive to other dogs. But these dogs were really messing with him, and I am sure they were causing him some pain by biting at his neck. There was a moment, completely unexpected, when God really struck my heart. I felt like a dad. I felt like how I want to feel when I am one day a dad. I sat down in a chair to take a rest, and immediately (I don't know how he got to me so fast) Wycliffe ran to me and jumped up onto my lap. He got as close to my body as he could... because he knew that I would protect him from these other jerk dogs. It was really amazing. His little black eyes looked up to mine, and I put my arms around him to make him feel safe. Just yesterday I spanking him hard... I disciplined him and punished him because he had done something that he wasn't supposed to do. But then at the dog park, he was clinging to me because I was his protection, and he knew that I loved him... even though I have disciplined him and his sister so many times. And the whole situation made me think about the Lord, our wonderful Father in Heaven—how He is always there to rebuke and correct us when we screw up, but He is a strong tower of security and love. That is what I want to be one day for my children—a father that they rightly fear, but want nothing other than to be in my arms when they are in trouble, or pain, or sadness. 

"May I hear about your loyal love

in the morning,

for I trust in you.

Show me the way I should go,

because I long for you.

Rescue me from my enemies, O Lord!

I run to you for protection.

Teach me to do what pleases you,

for you are my God.

May your kind presence

lead me into level land."

Psalm 143:8–10

God of the Storm

The image below is a statue of Jesus, standing in his boat, calming the storm. This particular statue is in Galveston, TX, which at the present has been evacuated as Hurricane Ike bears down on the Texas coast. The forecasters have exclaimed that anyone who remains in their Galveston homes this weekend faces "certain death."

I found this image to be quite interesting... even beautiful. Though the statue and much of the coast of Texas could be smashed up a bit in the coming week—God is still God. He is the God of the storm; He is unmoved.

"Be still, and know that I am God.

I will be exalted among the nations,

I will be exalted in the earth!

The Lord of hosts is with us;

the God of Jacob is our fortress.

Selah."

Psalm 46:10–11

"And a great windstorm arose, and the waves were breaking 

into the boat, so that the boat was already filling. But he was 

in the stern, asleep on the cushion. And they woke him and 

said to him, "Teacher, do you not care that we are perishing?" 

And he awoke and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, 

"Peace! Be still!" And the wind ceased, and there was a great 

calm. He said to them, "Why are you so afraid? Have you 

still no faith?" And they were filled with great fear and said 

to one another, "Who then is this, that even the wind and 

the sea obey him?"

Mark 4:37–41

"Peace I leave with you—my peace I give to you;

I do not give it to you as the world does.

Do not let your hearts be distressed or 

lacking in courage."

John 14:27

Acing the Test—Dr. Abe Kuruvilla

Chart for 1 John 1

What will YOU do with the TRUTH?

(click on the picture to see the larger image)

Two Things I Find Utterly Fascinating About Our God

I just finished up some reading for my classes, and I've just been praying a little bit and being still as my gorgeous wife lays resting on our couch. 

Here are two things—out of a myriad of truths that my human mind cannot begin to grasp—that just blow me away when I think about our incredible God:

1. God is a Trinity. He is one essence, but (somehow) three persons. Our God is bigger than any other god, or actually, than any other portrayal or possibility of deity from any people group, from any time. God can die a propitiatory death and still be seated on His throne above, he can burn with just wrath, and bring grace through mercy. Not only is He rightly seated on His heavenly throne, but He is also present in the hearts of the saints... ministering, teaching, leading, filling, loving, changing, sanctifying, encouraging, directing, shepherding.

2. God can speak, and things come into existence.  Let me repeat: God can speak, and things come into existence. God has power I cannot fathom. Thus, He has glory that I arrogantly reject and fail to praise. God can speak... and things come into existence. All He does is say words. How big, and how wonderful, and how mysterious, and how beautiful is our God?

Praise God, from whom all blessings flow;

Praise Him, all creatures here below;

Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;

Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. 

Amen.

The host of heaven:

"...day and night they never cease to say,

'Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord

God Almighty,

who was and is and is to come!' "

Revelation 4:8

Where is Your Heart Today?

I love You, O Lord, my strength.

The Lord is my rock and my 

fortress and my deliverer,

my God, my rock, in whom 

I take refuge, 

my shield, and the horn of my

salvation, my stronghold.

Ps. 18:1–2

The Realness of Blemishes

So I was sitting in my boss's office this morning and I had a thought. There is a rather large plant in the corner of his office, sitting by the window. And as I looked at it for a second, I thought, Hmm... is that plant real? After looking over some of its leaves, I came to the conclusion: sure it's real. It is real because it has blemishes. I'm not sure why the term "blemishes" popped into my head, but that's just what I thought. Isn't that a funny statement in itself?— "It is real because it has blemishes."

My thoughts continued: If it was a fake tree, they would not have made it with with faults. And this is true. My parents have one of those fake Christmas Trees that they put up every winter, and man, it looks awesome. It is perfect. But it is not real. This tree in my Boss's office had little black spots on some of the leaves, places of dead cells or whatever. And if the tree had been manufactured in a factory, it would not have had these spots, it would have been perfect. But even in its perfection, something artificial is only artificially perfect. 

Consider diamonds. The only perfect diamond is a Cubic Zirconium. A real diamond will always have some type of imperfection or blemish—however large or miniscule that may be. 

As human beings, we can easily project some artificial image of what we want to be. This is so common to my own thinking that often times I even convince myself that I am "better," or "more perfect," or even "holier" than other people. These have been the times when my relationship with the Lord has been the most artificial. 

"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, 

engaged in evil deeds, yet he has now reconciled you in His fleshly 

body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and 

blameless and beyond reproach."

Colossians 1:21–22

"Hear my cry, O God,

listen to my prayer;

from the end of the earth I call

to you

when my heart is faint.

Lead me to the rock 

that is higher than I,

for you have been my refuge, 

a strong tower against

the enemy.

Let me dwell in your tent forever!

Let me take refuge under the

shelter of your wings!

Selah

Psalm 61:1–4

Aim Lower, Think Smaller, Give Up, Go Have a Cup of Coffee

A new strategy for World Missions...

The Meat: Conversation With a Friend—Abridged

This is dialogue between my friend Andy and myself from earlier today. There is some good stuff going on there, so take a look.

 me:  You need to check out that sermon though, the thing that shocked me was the position on Creation. Not necessarily Evolution, but not 6-Day Creation.

(Dave's sermon)

 patton.andy:  yeah i've heard him say that before.

I am not sure if I should be bothered by it

I remember at Kanakuk the guy talking about how if you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation you may not be a christian... that seems a little extreme to me.

it was alienating. I am not necessarily against 6 day creation, but it makes sense to me that a god-guided evolution could be the way it went down

but the whole question just doesn't concern my that much (although I know it "probably should"... like politics)

 me:  I guess my problem with that, is that in my heart it dilutes God's Word. I feel like we are taking science and placing it in the Bible. I would prefer to take the Word and place that into our world, not vice-versa.

If that makes sense.

 patton.andy:  That makes sense. However, if God's word is the Truth then it ought to have no disagreement with science, in fact, science is just catching up with God. We are following God's trail, pursuing , but never exhausting the.

the wonders of his workmanship

so science and the Bible are not at odds

perhaps god created evolution, not secular evolution like they teach in school, but perhaps evolution was simply the means by which God built up an ordained end

or are you talking about how that means that then you would have to rethink the literalness of genesis

as in, God taking woman out of mans rib?

 me:  And I have no problem with that. But isn't a greater display of power to speak and have a glorious, beautiful creation, already mature and functioning? As opposed to taking millions of years? I just don't see the point of evolution outside from the secular, scientific view on the universe.

The "rib" is most likely Hebrew poetry. But I have no problem taking it literally.

 patton.andy:  Who are we to say what the greater display of power and glory is. Wouldn't it be a greater display of power to heal an amputee? or to answer my every prayer? But God doesn't do those things

 me:  Sure he doesn't. But that is a different arena of God working.

 me:  I fear that if we adjust the "literalness" of the Word too much to fit our present understanding of the universe, we may lose a lot of the glory that God has worked through time in light of our reason.

 patton.andy:  But God gave us science. Isn't science just exploring the mechanics of the glory of God

In that case, we don't see the glory of God until we understand it

 me:  Certainly. But Andy I think that every single thing that God gave to us we tend to corrupt and use it for evil. I know I do. With money, food, my freedom, my wife—the greatest example of this is His Word.

 patton.andy:  And you are saying that what we are talking about might be a corruption of science?

 me:  No. I think we can use science for means that are not glorifying to God. There is really no way to prove, or know, how exactly God created. But if He did do it in six days and we use the science of today to "prove" that He created over millions of years, he certainly isn't glorified in that.

Remember though... I'm not trying to be a tool or a jerk. I'm just thinking.

 patton.andy:  Yeah I don't think you are being a tool... i am loving this conversation.

here are my thoughts

 patton.andy:  1. We can use science in ways that are not glorifying to God (i.e. the new atheism using "science" to disprove God... or the atomic bomb being used to kill innocents) BUT science is still a good thing created by God to be used for his glory. If this is true then the MORE we understand science the more God is glorified.

2. Perhaps if science shows that creation was made in more than 6 days it is because it actually was made that way. Why would Christians view that science as an enemy?

What have we to fear from that?

 me:  Good point. There is nothing to fear except for the possibility (however miniscule) of scientific findings somehow being used by Satan to deceive or lead us away from God. Which ultimately, like you mentioned earlier, one of the finest qualities for a Christian to have (yet so few do) is humility.

 patton.andy:  Yes. Science being basically a good thing like any other created thing does not mean we are free to be undiscerning with it

other thoughts?

 me:  Not really. But I'm going to ponder the point about what "presents a greater display of God's power," either a 6-day creation, or a 6-million year creation. But ultimately it doesn't matter. In the Lord may we always take refuge, no matter what happens around us (Ps 11).

 patton.andy:  amen to that.

 me:  Amen.

Now you need to go get on that preaching list.

 patton.andy:  to add to that I would throw in the question: what business is it of ours to have an opinion on which is the greater glory

how could we even tell?

what could we ground our opinions in beyond mere cultural fancy?

 me:  We cannot. His ways are higher and far beyond our own. And we must only worship HIm because, truly, can his glory even be measured?

 

Conversation With a Friend—Unabridged

patton.andy:  Mr. Kyle A Reed

 me:  Hey Andy.

 patton.andy:  hey man. how are you

 me:  I am doing well. Last week I finished up a summer class, so it's really nice to have this week off.

 patton.andy:  great. we just took a staff retreat to covenant seminary this week. talked to some professors. it was a great time

 me:  Sweet. When are you gonna take some classes there, huh?

 patton.andy:  I am trying to decide if i should go next fall right now

 me:  Fall '09? Are you considering any other schools?

 patton.andy:  nope. the draw of going to seminary drops a lot when I think of not going to covenant b/c it's in st. louis and b/c of the professors

 me:  So you don't want to get out of Missouri? —and you're set on those  profs?  ... fair enough.

 patton.andy:  My brother is in St. Louis and I would love to live near him for a time. And one of the big reasons I would go to Covenant wold be Jerram Barrs, not to mention all the other things I have heard about certain professors

 me:  Tell me about Barrs.

 patton.andy:  Jerram worked with L'abri for 17 years and now is the director of hte francis schaeffer institute. he speaks at the l'abri conference we go to every year. he has written a few books and you can listen to a few of his classes on the covenant website such an incredible teacher and he is so humble that's the main reason I want to study with him, hoping to learn from his humility

 me:  That's awesome man. I will check out the Covenant website. Can I podcast any of his stuff?

 patton.andy:  go to covenantseminary.edu/worldwide

 me:  I'm there...

 patton.andy:  you can podcast three entire classes he teaches. they recorded every word said in lecture and put it online

 patton.andy:  the apologetics and outreach class is the one everyone says changed them after they come through covenant

its about understanding the culture we live in. loving people who aren't christians. learning how to communicate with that culture

he also teaches two classes on francis schaeffer which are great

 me:  You've already listened to them all?

 patton.andy:  jerrams classes

 me:  I'm trying to get that stuff into iTunes... But how about a question: Are we living in the "Seventh Day?"

 patton.andy:  i don't know what that means

 me:  I listened to Luke's sermon on the 3 tough questions... and then I listened to Dave Cover's about Science and God/The Bible. He made the point that Gen 2 doesn't "end" day 7 of Creation, so we're still living "day 7"

 patton.andy:  ok i missed that one. i was gone somewhere

 me:  Well dang it Andy. I actually was taken aback with some of the things Dave said.

 patton.andy:  I will have to listen to it. what was off-putting

 me:  And speaking of Luke, when are you going to get up there and preach?

 patton.andy:  ha. never probably

 me:  you should, man.

 patton.andy:  luke is what I call the "big leagues"

i am triple A

I'll have to get on the sign up list though

 me:  You would tear it up in there.

 patton.andy:  i would love it

have you done any preaching in seminary?

have you enjoyed it?

 me:  I've got my first preaching class this fall. It's funny though, because I know the "style," if you will, of Dallas Seminary Preaching, but the best preacher I've ever heard is pretty much the exact opposite.

 patton.andy:  hmm. funny how seminaries have styles

 me:  It's disturbing.

 patton.andy:  and who is the best preacher you've heard?

 me:  Matt Chandler. He's done some stuff with Mars Hill and the Acts 29 stuff. I know Luke's heard of him.

 patton.andy:  I have heard of him and I think heard one sermon. People say he is great

a lot like mark driscoll

 me:  Podcast him. Right now. Village Church.

Driscoll's outstanding. But Matt Chandler blows him away. No one has ever spoken and brought conviction to my heart like Matt Chandler. His teaching is unreal.

 patton.andy:  here is the thing about podcasting things for me right now... I just need to read the word. It is SO easy for me to listen to sermons. maybe too esy

i don't know if that is a true thought, but I have felt my desire to actually read the word myself drained lately and it annoys me

 me:  I understand completely. But honestly for me, being in Dallas, I spend about an hour and a half every day in the car, so I'm always listening.

 patton.andy:  yeah thats what i listen to in cars too

 me:  But don't let anything quench your thirst for God's Word. Matt Chandler will bring conviction, sure. But the Holy Spirit is pretty good, too.

 patton.andy:  check out the audio resources tab on our blog as soon as i finish it in about 20 minutes

 me:  Sure man.

You need to check out that sermon though, the thing that shocked me was the position on Creation. Not necessarily Evolution, but not 6-Day Creation.

(Dave's sermon)

 patton.andy:  yeah i've heard him say that before.

I am not sure if I should be bothered by it

I remember at Kanakuk the guy talking about how if you don't believe in a literal 6 day creation you may not be a christian... that seems a little extreme to me.

it was alienating. I am not necessarily against 6 day creation, but i makes sense to me that a god-guided evolution could be the way it went down

but the whole question just doesn't concern my that much (although I know it "probably should"... like politics)

 me:  I guess my problem with that, is that in my heart it dilutes God's Word. I feel like we are taking science and placing it in the Bible. I would prefer to take the Word and place that into our world, not vice-versa.

If that makes sense.

 patton.andy:  That makes sense. However, if God's word is the Truth then it ought to have no disagreement with science, in fact, science is just catching up with God. We are following God's trail, pursuing , but never exhausting the.

the wonders of his workmanship

so science and the Bible are not at odds

perhaps god created evolution, not secular evolution like they teach in school, but perhaps evolution was simply the means by which God built up an ordained end

or are you talking about how that means that then you would have to rethink the literalness of genesis

as in, God taking woman out of mans rib?

 me:  And I have no problem with that. But isn't a greater display of power to speak and have a glorious, beautiful creation, already mature and functioning? As opposed to taking millions of years? I just don't see the point of evolution outside from the secular, scientific view on the universe.

The "rib" is most likely Hebrew poetry. But I have no problem taking it literally.

 patton.andy:  Who are we to say what the greater display of power and glory is. Wouldn't it be a greater display of power to heal an amputee? or to answer my every prayer? But God doesn't do those things

 me:  Sure he doesn't. But that is a different arena of God working.

 me:  I fear that if we adjust the "literalness" of the Word too much to fit our present understanding of the universe, we may lose a lot of the glory that God has worked through time in light of our reason.

 patton.andy:  But God gave us science. Isn't science just exploring the mechanics of the glory of God

In that case, we don't see the glory of God until we understand it

 me:  Certainly. But Andy I think that every single thing that God gave to us we tend to corrupt and use it for evil. I know I do. With money, food, my freedom, my wife—the greatest example of this is His Word.

 patton.andy:  And you are saying that what we are talking about might be a corruption of science?

 me:  No. I think we can use science for means that are not glorifying to God. There is really no way to prove, or know, how exactly God created. But if He did do it in six days and we use the science of today to "prove" that He created over millions of years, he certainly isn't glorified in that.

Remember though... I'm not trying to be a tool or a jerk. I'm just thinking.

 patton.andy:  Yeah I don't think you are being a tool... i am loving this conversation.

here are my thoughts

 patton.andy:  1. We can use science in ways that are not glorifying to God (i.e. the new atheism using "science" to disprove God... or the atomic bomb being used to kill innocents) BUT science is still a good thing created by God to be used for his glory. If this is true then the MORE we understand science the more God is glorified.

2. Perhaps if science shows that creation was made in more than 6 days it is because it actually was made that way. Why would Christians view that science as an enemy?

What have we to fear from that?

 me:  Good point. There is nothing to fear except for the possibility (however miniscule) of scientific findings somehow being used by Satan to deceive or lead us away from God. Which ultimately, like you mentioned earlier, one of the finest qualities for a Christian to have (yet so few do) is humility.

 patton.andy:  Yes. Science being basically a good thing like any other created thing does not mean we are free to be undiscerning with it

other thoughts?

 me:  Not really. But I'm going to ponder the point about what "presents a greater display of God's power," either a 6-day creation, or a 6-million year creation. But ultimately it doesn't matter. In the Lord may we always take refuge, no matter what happens around us (Ps 11).

 patton.andy:  amen to that.

 me:  Amen.

No you need to go get on that preaching list.

 patton.andy:  to add to that I would throw in the question: what business is it of ours to have an opinion on which is the greater glory

how could we even tell?

what could we ground our opinions in beyond mere cultural fancy?

 me:  We cannot. His ways are higher and far beyond our own. And we must only worship HIm because, truly, can his glory even be measured?

• • •

Another question, one that I've been praying about—if you don't mind a change of subject? Or do you have to go?

 patton.andy:  I've got 15 minutes

write your question. i am going to take a 2 minute shower. brb

 me:  There may not really an answer to this question, at least not a simple one. Basically... I don't like the way we "do communion," and I don't like the way we do "baptism." Hmm. What do you think? (Now, I don't know how I would prefer to "do" the sacraments; I just know that I don't really think they are performed today as God intended them to be)

 me:  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Do you care if this conversation is added to my blog? might be a good one to hold on to.

 patton.andy:  Add away. I was actually thinking of putting something on my blog too. Man, people with blogs are weird.

 me:  At least they think alike!

 patton.andy:  My thoughts are short seeing as how I  have not developed yet strong opinions on the sacraments

i guess i should have changed "short" to "non-existent"

but tell me more about what makes you say that

 me:  haha.

 patton.andy:  have T minus 2 minutes

 me:  [keep in mind, most of the churches I've been attending post-Crossing have been baptist]well, think about it for me. I've seen numerous "baptism celebrations," or whatever, and the church is supposed to be all excited when someone is baptized. At least that's what is always said beforehand, you know, "we should be celebrating more than at the super bowl!" all that jazz. And I look around at everyone, and some people are dumbfounded, but most are doing this fake, celebration yell thing. And it's weird. It feels artificial. I've heard often that "it's an outward expression of an inward change," but is that what it is in scripture? Is it really just to make a "public profession?"

 patton.andy:  1. yeah that is weird/artificial

 patton.andy:  2. It seems to be at least an outward sign of an inward change, but also seems to be, in a mysterious way, a means of grace. In the way that communion is to, somehow we are blessed/strengthened by the sacraments. Not saying "saving grace" or a special blessing as if we should try to do communion every day or get baptzed every time we are feeling tempted... but that they are good thigns

thigns

things

lit

but i don't really know

that seems like one of those seminary questions

which is probably why you are asking it you seminarian you

 me:  you tool.

Actually, it's just kind of been something I've thought about since college.

But you're definitely right about being a means of grace. I would say that GRACE is the purpose of the sacraments as opposed to an outward symbol.

 patton.andy:  yes

 me:  But I just think most have lost that in Churches.

you need to go...

but also... And communion... (1) a symbol? or (2) a meal of fellowship to be shared among the Body, and during that union to focus on ("remember") that Christ died for our sins.

 patton.andy:  i need to go

yes

to both

and means of grace

 me:  proud of you.

We need to do this again.

soon

 patton.andy:  good talk. see you out there

heck yes

i pick the topic next time

 me:  Agreed.

 patton.andy:  dispensationalism.

and no. i never listened to that sermon

i am a bad friend

where can i find it?

 me:  Haha... do you really want to get me started on the Big D?

 patton.andy:  no not really

i have to learn/care about it first

maybe next year

there definitely is a course i would have to take called covenant theology

ok i am going to be late

bbye

 me:  Open iTunes, do a Browse in the Podcast section for "Denton Bible Church" or "Tommy Nelson." It should be on there. It is from July 07. You can hear my voice in that podcast, too.

 patton.andy:  got it